Cassi Gritzmacher on How to Codify Values & Embrace Ambiguity

Mixing Board Studio Session

Cassi Gritzmacher is a communications and social impact leader who spent a decade across a variety of political and nonprofit roles, including as the Deputy Director of Communications & Marketing at the Clinton Foundation. She built the communications function as part of the early team at direct-to-consumer travel company Away, and several years as a fractional communications leaders for purpose-led brands and people. She’s currently the Head of PR & External Communications at Found, an evidence-based weight care platform that combines the best of modern medicine with personalized coaching and community. 

In this Studio Session, Cassi and Mixing Board Founder, Sean Garrett, talk about re-educating folks on what comms is (and what it isn’t), the differences between being in-house and being a consultant, why career curveballs are a good thing, and giving yourself permission to change. 

SG: What are you up to now and how did you find yourself there? 

CG: Our careers have such a funny way of making more sense in retrospect. I could not have told you that Found was in the cards for me if you had asked me 10 years ago. Ten years ago I was still working in politics and was pretty committed to spending my entire career there. I would not have said that I’d be at a healthcare startup focusing on weight loss.

But when I look back at my career, which meaningfully started with the Clintons, and a lot of my work there was focused on our health and wellness portfolio. Issues ranging from the opioid epidemic in the US to maternal health to childhood obesity. It feels full circle to be able to have started my career in the community programming and health policy space, and now I'm combining that experience with what I learned at Away and other high growth startups along the way. 

At Found, we're doing some interesting work in a space that is ripe for disruption and improvement: weight care. And I'm excited about that because I feel like I have the right skillset, the right mindset, the right context. But health care is complicated and I still have a lot to learn!

SG: Tell me about the full portfolio of what you're doing at Found.

CG: I'm leading Comms and PR. And as you know, although the title can be the same, the role is different. So what that means right now, is thinking about who our stakeholders are, who we are trying to reach, and how we do that in a way that feels sophisticated, nuanced, and impactful. There’s also a real need to consider the various sensitivities that come with talking about weight. It's a wildly complex topic that is deeply personal. Big picture, my focus is how we can be a part of changing the narrative, how we talk about our bodies and how society talks about weight. There's so much media focus on GLP-1s right now. I just read an article that said, “GLP-1s and GPT were the two biggest disruptions of 2023,” and that about sums it up.

There is a significant technological disruption that has happened with the invention of GLP-1s and that class of medication, for weight loss, specifically. It's great that the media is interested in that, but from a PR lens, we have to think about how we take advantage of this heightened attention, heightened curiosity, and heightened potential for misinformation and misunderstanding. And how we ensure that we're inserting ourselves into the conversation at the right time, in the right way, with the right level of care. 

Part of the challenge right now is there are a lot of telehealth weight loss companies popping up. You're seeing an increase in companies entering the space to take advantage of the GLP-1s craze and the result is that they’re marketing is centered, largely, on all of the medications that they're offering, but less on the care that needs to coincide with that. Medication delivery is only part of the problem when we think about our mission of delivering comprehensive, personalized weight care. One of the things that we say often is, "We’re a service company, not a goods company."

I hope that consumers and media are ready to have that conversation and appreciate the complexity and the nuance there. I view a big part of my job as helping to shape that narrative and helping people to understand.

SG: Yes, this is a really sophisticated, complex, multidimensional issue, in a space that has been completely fractionalized by social media many, many times over. Every person thinking about weight loss is not reading an Atlantic story on new medications and their health complexities. They're scrolling through their phone and coming across quick fixes. 

CG: Yes, along with the rise in popularity of GLP-1s that are offering that quick fix we’ve become so accustomed to craving. We're seeing people lose a dramatic amount of weight in a very short amount of time, and that’s tempting for many, even when it’s not the clinically-appropriate solution. For a society that has been conditioned to believe that your weight is entirely within your control, that it's an issue of willpower vs. an issue of biology – we’ve been told that you should lose weight quickly because you'll be treated better if you're thin, if you're in a smaller body. And weight bias is real. But a quick fix or leaning on a medication for cosmetic purposes just can’t be the solution.

There are so many layers to why people are responding in the way that they are. But the solution, from a comms perspective, from a PR perspective, from an overall ethical business operations perspective is not to push medication. That's not the answer. There's a really important balance to strike when we're talking about comprehensive care because medication is one part of that, but it's not the only thing that will help people achieve healthy, lasting results.

SG: And yet you're a startup who needs customers and needs to get attention. There’s got to be tension from the demand-gen side with this more complex side, which is a lot about internal dynamics and internal conversations tied to external realities. But there’s a lot to manage here. 

CG: That's definitely a piece of it, figuring out how to meet consumers and media where they are, taking advantage of the conversation that’s already happening. And it’s also about shifting the conversation or questioning the premise of the conversation altogether. I got an inbound recently that was looking for “tips to lose weight quickly ahead of a ‘big day’” and we shared why that’s the wrong question to be asking.. But I understand that not everyone is interested in a more comprehensive conversation, and to some degree, we absolutely have to meet people where they are in order to start truly changing the narrative on weight.

To break down some specifics in terms of the statistics, more than 40% of Americans are currently living with obesity, and there's an additional 30% who are otherwise struggling with being overweight. If you think about the total addressable market for people who are looking to find a healthy weight, it's close to 70% of Americans. Counter that with the fact that fewer than 100 doctors have completed a fellowship in obesity medicine and are actively practicing. We have a public health crisis, and a shortage of physicians equipped to solve it. It’s also worth noting that the number on a scale, and outdated metrics like BMI don’t paint a complete picture – you can be healthy in a larger body and unhealthy in a smaller one. 

There's a macro conversation about how we talk about weight and then there's a more micro conversation around how do I make sure that I'm reaching the right consumer? Both of those conversations at both of those altitudes are important. 

SG: How do you feel like you're approaching this job differently based on the previous experiences you’ve had in your career – you're taking all these pieces of information from the different places you’ve been and applying it to where you are now. When you started at Found, how did you approach day one and then the first 30 days in a way that pulled in experiences and mindfully led to an approach that's getting to this strategic assessment now?

CG: Part of day one, and how I still feel today, is understanding that there is a level of inherent bias that we all carry as it relates to weight and how we operate in the world in a specific body. Of course I don’t have all the answers, but having that context and being willing to just acknowledge that is an important first step. My time with the Clintons was really helpful in shaping that – it's okay to not know. In fact, the job is different every day. The way you win is to approach every day with a really curious and open mindset.

I left the Clintons after almost seven years and then I went straight to Away, where curiosity and experimentation was also highly rewarded. I remember people thinking that was such a weird move, to go from politics straight into selling luggage at a startup. But for me, it felt really natural. In a lot of ways the political space and the startup space are actually not so dissimilar. The pacing is very similar, your priorities are constantly changing because the business is changing. Whether it's a nonprofit, a political campaign, or a startup, the goal is to be able to adapt to the present and, to some degree, try to predict the future. You inevitably have to have a level of comfort with ambiguity. There's no other way to be. 

During my first few weeks at Away I was so grateful for my experience working with the Clinton's, because it prepared me for that pacing and ambiguity. That's not to say that there aren't defined goals. But for example, when Hurricane Sandy hit, forget the meeting that we were supposed to hold next week and drive a bunch of press around, we're now literally in disaster response mode.

That's an extreme example, but I remember being very aware of the similarities, and those skills have carried through to Found too. There's a lot happening in the space of weight care, new medications, new studies, new players offering similar but different products for consumers to consider. All of that makes for an environment that is literally different every day. That's been the biggest throughline, the necessary comfort with quick pacing and ambiguity.

SG: Another throughline for the different organizations you’ve worked with is that each one has been values-driven. I know this is something that you care a lot about. What's your take on how organizations should approach values? Is it something that everyone needs to have? Is it something that you constantly need to change? 

CG: I spent a lot of time thinking through frameworks for this while I was consulting and how to actually codify values. It's a word that people throw around and at times even weaponize. There's a level of like, “We have this value, so we take this action,” but as a defense to do something that is actually counter to your values if you take the time to zoom out. 

SG: Like people interpreting the 2nd Amendment.

CG: Great example. My philosophy on life is that we're changing every day. As individuals, if we're doing this thing called life correctly, we're working to be constantly better versions of ourselves. I give myself that permission to change all the time because I think that's actually the goal. I approach my work with a similar mindset because I really believe that having clarity on values is critical, and being willing to change them to some degree and to be wrong about what you thought you were right about before, it's just an annoyingly human quality.

Maybe Away doesn't seem like the most purpose-driven stop, but to me, helping people understand the possibility of expanding your world and expanding your mindset is directly related to my values, which hinder on having a global mindset and an adventurous spirit that makes me a kinder, more empathetic person. 

SG: Of course people could dismiss it and go, "Oh, that's silly, purpose around a luggage company." But that's very well-stated, as far as a direct tie to the human experience and what you do. The trouble that some organizations can get into is when their purpose gets overstated, over-exaggerated, or over-emphasized, and then it becomes impossible to live up to.

CG: Yes, for sure. It's either tough to live up to, or it's not actually right. When I was consulting, a lot of my inbound business was people coming to me saying, "Hey, you've navigated tough comms. Can you help us figure out what to say about this big scary thing?" And I'm like, "Well, yes, but this isn't just going to be an hour-long call to figure out your strategy.” I'm happy to help you with that, but let's take a step back and figure out why you're even in this situation – why are you unclear on what you’d say? Why does the answer feel murky? 

I want to get you to a place where the next time something like this happens, you have such clarity on what you would say that you're spending less time debating whether or not you say anything at all and more time figuring out how to say it. While I was consulting, I developed some solid frameworks and my own perspective on how to do that effectively, including. how to make sure that the right people across the organization were included in that conversation, when it’s historically been limited to too few. A lot of my focus was working directly with founders, executive comms ended up being a big focus of my consulting work as I think there’s more pressure than ever for leaders to be vocal about what they do and don’t stand for. I don’t think it’s right to speak on every issue, but I know how critical it is to have clarity on what you do and don’t speak up on. 

In terms of values overall, I feel like it's this fluffy word that we throw around, but to me it really does form this clear path forward. When you're able to get clarity, whether you're a business or an individual, on who you are and what's important to you and what you actually want to be doing and talking about, everything else falls together.

People discount that upfront work because they think that their values are obvious. Then we go through the exercises and people are like, "Whoa, I wouldn't have thought Value X ranked as highly as it does. But now that helps me understand why every time I want to talk about Value Y that's much lower on my list, I don't feel nearly as energized as I do when Value X comes up." It helps to force rank priorities.

And as an added benefit of that focus, when you talk about something on a consistent basis, that's when people start to associate you with specific words and ideas. I love that one of the words that I'm associated with is “values.” That makes me so happy. If we can do that, as communicators, for the people and the companies that we work with, to have that clarity and then allow that clarity to truly force prioritization in terms of lived behavior, everything else becomes so much easier. What's an example of something that you love to talk about?

SG: Music. 

CG: What's an example of something that you absolutely hate to talk about?

SG: Money.

CG: Energetically, the same person can ask you a question about music and money and I’m confident you will show up differently. People will feel your presence  in different ways when you talk about one vs. the other. You'll be more convincing when you're talking about music. You'll be more infectious, you'll be more alive, you'll be this amazing version of yourself. When you're talking about money, you're like, "Why are we talking about this? Let's move on."

A lot of founders that I talk to, who are quite candidly so jaded on comms, it's because they've been forced to talk about things that don't light them up. Things that aren’t true to them. Look, if you're the founder, you're the CEO, you have to talk about certain things in order to be an effective business leader, but find a way to balance that with all of the other things that truly light you up. You don't have to sacrifice all of those things in order to be effective. And you will ultimately feel really drained if you're only talking about things that you don't really care about in environments that you don't really care about.

SG: Before going through this exercise, I bet most founders thought: "I'm going to hire this PR person. We're going to figure out where I'm going to speak, and maybe I'll talk to the New York Times or whatever.” Tell me about what they got out of this, versus their preconceptions about "PR".

CG: People have a very specific and narrow understanding of what PR is. I've also never sold myself saying that I'm going to get you PR, as in media coverage. There's actually nothing on my website or much on my LinkedIn that promotes media coverage at all. Sure it’s part of what I do, but it’s not why people are coming to me. When I think about comms as an evolving function, the tone here is beginning to change a lot. Mixing Board has such an interesting role to play in helping to define that, and personally has been so helpful for me to see all of the different ways that people approach the same title.

We are at a phase where we're starting to elevate the comms function and re-educate people on what it is and what it's not. There's still so many old school definitions, like comms people necessarily equals media relations experts, and their sole job is to get media coverage. We know that it's so much more upstream than that. My clients would come to me saying, "I feel like the most common feedback that I got by the end of your process was I thought comms meant this, and in fact, I now believe it to mean this."

People are starting to understand that comms people are able to be the most effective when we're actually guiding the conversation on business strategy. When we're brought in as this full funnel strategic input, not a channel specific output. When we can help to shape that point of view on what we're even doing as a business, we're able to help debate and prioritize. We’re able to ideate around what the business should be focused on, even if it means that we're talking about things that we're not even immediately selling, rather, we're creating that brand love and association with an idea. We're helping people across the organization think big picture – why do we exist and how can we talk about it? That's how you build and shape influence. That's how you actually make change. It's not handing your comms person a company memo and asking them to get news on it.

SG: What's your recommendation for people just entering this field? Because as you started this conversation, you thought you’d be on a linear path, but it’s not always like that. 

CG: Be open to those twists and turns. Being open to the curveballs is what has put me in the right rooms at the right time. I've worked hard and I've gotten really lucky. When Hillary lost in 2016, it was both personally and professionally devastating for me. I thought that my career was going in one direction, and it quickly became clear that it wasn't. Of course there were ways for me to continue down a political path, but none of those ways were interesting to me at the time.

Again, going from politics to selling luggage seemed like such a weird move, being open to that transition and trusting that the right opportunity was presenting itself and that I was going to be able to meet that opportunity with the same level of curiosity that I started my first job with and be successful. And if I wasn't, what was the worst case? I'd leave, I'd do something else.

We put so much pressure on ourselves to figure it out, to have this really clear idea of what we’re supposed to be doing. Throw all of that away. Because even when you make the plan, the plan just doesn't usually unfold in the way that you expect it to. So just remain so open-minded, and trust that the thing that's actually going to unfold might be better than anything you could have ever imagined.

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